For my second victim I have been lucky enough to interview one of my favourite new independent writers. A review of his excellent podcast described him as "...author, jazz saxophonist, sky diver, ladies man, Argentinian ballroom coach, Doctor Who fan, Olympic taxidermy champion and idol to millions". Some of those things are actually true. I've already looked in depth at the first three volumes in his SF series "Winterhill" (and you can read those here, here and here).
With the fourth volume due imminently - the title has been revealed as "Rise of the Fall" - I thought it was time I caught up with:
Iain Martin
Hi Iain and thank you hugely for checking into the Rubber Room. I hope the straightjacket isn't
too tight and Nurse Bobich will be along with the medication in a short while. To
start with, can you tell us a little about yourself and what led you into
writing in the first place? Is it something you have always been drawn to?
I think it probably was.
As a kid I would routinely fill school exercise books with my nonsense, but the
time I’d identify as my proper formation as a writer was during 6th Form
College, where I was taking Theatre Studies but reaching the point where my
teenage self-loathing was reaching fever pitch and I just couldn’t be on stage
in front of people. Too self-conscious. So acting and performing was a door
which was closing. At the same time I was taking an extra course on playwriting
and discovering that telling a story through dialogue was a thing I could do
almost on autopilot. While this early stuff was inevitably terrible, that was
the period in my life where the points changed and I was doomed to trundle
along the tracks of writing. “Doomed to trundle along the tracks”? Martin Amis
is right when he says writers are all so down on their calling. “I ply,
sir, the scrivener’s trade…”
Did your background and
experience in publishing give you an insight into what to do / not do when it
came to writing your first novel?
I think it was more my
experience as a reader, to be honest, although working for a few years
as a bookseller made me read a huge amount. You won’t get anywhere as a writer
if you don’t read.
I ignored ‘the rules’ when
writing Winterhill (does that make me sound like David Brent?) because it’s
trying to be something new which traditional, old-fashioned publishing
rightly views with fear and suspicion.
For me the writing is
easier because my brain is able to construct these things the way I want them,
often while I’m running or in the bath (miles from a sodding pen) and all I
have to do is type it up. That said, I try to follow conventions where
possible, to reassure readers that hopefully they’re getting something they’ll
enjoy.
I know that we share an
undying love for Doctor Who, but were you a big fan of science fiction /
fantasy novels growing up?
If so, which authors particularly influenced you?
It was mainly about
Doctor Who for me, although first came the books of Douglas Adams.
From 1987 I’ve read each
new Discworld novel from the late Tezza Pratchett, and I picked up things liked
Good Omens, but on the whole I read Doctor Who books until the New Adventures
stopped in 1997, and then I was reading straightforward adult fiction.
I did hugely love the
four Red Dwarf novels, though. They were so much better than they could have
been or needed to be.
I read Neuromancer a few
times and sort of followed it but I found Gibson’s style to be deliberately
spiky and his images were hard to visualise.
A year or so ago I read
the first Game of Thrones book, which was surprisingly excellent.
What I find, though, is
that as a reader I’m looking for more than just a good story, I’m looking for
human insight and psychology. As a writer, sadly, I’m just a story-teller
through and through. Jeff Deaver always says he isn’t a Great Writer, he’s a
creator of entertainments, and I think I’m in that camp too. Insight is not my
strong suit.
How did you come up with
the idea of Rebecca Winterhill ?
In many ways she created herself. For
about three years I hadn’t written a word, or not seriously, and the
realisation dawned that I just didn’t have the mental bandwidth necessary for
writing a novel, and carrying all those plot-lines, subtexts and themes around
in my head all the time, or at least not while holding down a very demanding
day job too.
At the same time, in publishing, we
were hearing that Kindle readers were increasingly prepared to pay less for
smaller pieces of writing - novellas, shots, and essays.
So the idea that burst out of me one
day was to do a serial. Stories, or episodes, of a fixed word-count. Then I
randomly decided to shoot for 8,000 words apiece. Then I thought “this is a very
TV way of creating something”, and realised what I wanted to write was
this “cross between a novel and a DVD boxset” that I keep talking about.
To kick the stories off I planned to
recycle some old BBC Doctor Who novel ideas that had never been commissioned -
or had been but then got swiftly nixed - and I sort of felt, rather than
planned, that I’d be operating in the SF realm. So then I needed a central
character - one who wasn’t the Doctor - and the first and most obvious way to
radically head in a different direction is to make the character a woman.
To give me a ready-made story-arc, or
a point to the series, I thought “I know, she’s lost her memory”, because her
quest then becomes much the same as all of ours - to find out who you truly
are.
In the first book, I was just
free-wheeling, telling stories and having fun, but during the writing of book
two I had to take myself away and work out exactly who Winterhill is, and how
she got to the point we found her in the first story. It’s clichéd to say “women
are more interesting than men” but as a central figure I have to find clever
ways for her to save the day, because she’s not all about blowing things up or
shooting people. That’s not the sort of book I’d enjoy reading, and certainly
not the sort of thing I’d want to write. I want a hero to win with wit, intelligence,
sarcasm and helped by logic rather than chance or superior physical strength.
Otherwise, where’s the fun? Where’s the challenge?
Do you have a "series
bible" in your head and a general plan for what each book will cover
and how it will fit into the wider narrative - or do you think of some cool
ideas and then shape them to fit into the Winterhill universe?
There has been a sort of bible since
writing book two - at that point I thought I’d better know where I’m going with
this thing or I’m cheating the reader - but it’s very fluid. I know the shape
of the last book, I know who Winterhill is, and I know how the story ends. But
as regards when precisely I write that final book… As long as I’m still
having fun, and I really, really am, my job is to fill each new book with other
stories and new adventures, and put that final ‘series’ off for as long as I
can.
At the same time, all roads are very
definitely leading to Rome. I don’t know if you, as a reader, get a sense of
that, but events are already well in motion and every story-arc sits within a
wider context and a bigger picture. That said, book four is a fairly pivotal
one in which a lot of threads get woven together and things do start to become
a little clearer.
What is your goal with
the novels, both for yourself and for the reader?
The goal with Winterhill was to
explore the newish format I’ve developed here; although it’s safe to say it
hasn’t yet set the world on fire, reviews have been positive and the readers
seem to generally enjoy the adventures. It was also a way to ease me back into
writing fiction, and the idea - or expectation - was that I’d get to book four
or five at the absolute most and wrap it all up.
But I’m having more fun with each new
book so I think I’ll be in the twenty-sixth century for a while yet. Hopefully
it will prove worthwhile. I find it hard to market the books to any extent -
this is the real disadvantage of Kindle publishing - so when I’m done writing
the story I’ll have to devote some time to effective marketing.
You've chosen to release the novels as self-published eBooks rather than physical media. What prompted this choice and what would you say are the main advantages and disadvantages? Would you like to see a paperback version one day?
I’d love to see printed books but I’m
not going to fill my living room with unsold stock of my own books. In
my time as a bookseller and as buyer, I have met some self-published authors
who have, perhaps unfairly, made me regard the entire breed in a very negative
light. ‘Pushy’ is fine, but I’ve actually been personally cyber-bullied by one
author (and his easily-controlled Twitter following) whose book was not quite
what my company was looking to stock at that time.
So if and when the series gets bought
by a traditional publisher we’ll see hard copies. The main disadvantage as I
said earlier is the lack of marketing channels - and it’s easy to be conned by
people offering to do this work for you. A lot of unscrupulous people are
lining up to sell you advertising space online promising great things which
essentially proves to be at worst a con-trick. I believe J.R. Southall (of the 'Blue Box' podcast) recently
discussed one such gentleman I’ve stupidly given money to.
The biggest advantage is I have full
editorial control of the book, and don’t have to spend a year jumping through
hoops making upsetting edits at an editor’s behest.
The disadvantage of this is perhaps on
occasion I can be a little self-indulgent and you inevitably get the dod tpyo.
Tell me about the covers
by blogger and podcaster Al No. How did you first make contact with Al
and decide you wanted him to do your illustrations - and what was your design
brief?
I first got in touch with Al when I
wrote in to the 'Diddly Dum' podcast he used to co-host. He was and is a very
insightful, thoughtful and clever chap who made lesser minds seem pedestrian in
their textual analysis of Doctor Who. We sort of became messenger buddies.
When I was thinking about how crap my
covers looked (Amazon’s Kindle cover creator tool is not quite brilliant) I
wondered about getting someone who could draw (i.e. anyone but me) to create
better covers, and I noticed the illustrations on Al’s blog which struck me as pretty much exactly the sort of thing I needed.
So rather cautiously I asked him if he
accepted commissions. And he did. The brief was I hope quite vague initially, “Rebecca’s
face. Oh, and a planet or something” but with each book it’s got a little more
detailed and Al has quite magically created a sort of uniform look for the
covers with just a few messages from me.
Although I fear I tested his patience
with my requests for changes to Qalqavekkian’s moustache on the cover of the
second book, Ghost Requiem. He’d done exactly what I wanted, but he’d done it
so well that I felt it was a bit too close to home and needed a tweak. Part of
me wants to make each subsequent book more outlandish to give him ever-more
outrageous artistic demands but he might crack and stab me with a pencil. So
best not.
The titles for the
stories within each book are very unique and memorable. What inspired you to
come up with them?
Good question. As a fan
of good episode titles I was spoiled by The Sopranos and The X-Files. So the
urge to do something a little more interesting and thought-provoking was always
there, but apart from a couple of examples in the first two books, they were
fairly pedestrian and it was only with book three that I really tried to make
them work harder.
The second episode in
book three is called Elvis Presley and the Monsters of Soul - my
favourite title, and that episode remains to date the most fun I’ve ever had as
a writer. It’s pretty obvious what I’m doing in that story, and the title is
referencing a working-title for an as-yet unreleased song by a formerly
well-known American rock band. But maybe three people on the planet will get
ALL the references in that story.
The next episode - The
Human Invasion of Earth - is just such a great Doctor Who story title I
thought I’d use it first. Then I can sue them when they get around to thinking
of it. Unless someone already thought of it and is waiting to sue me. Arse.
Serum3Evolution5 is a complete X-Files title homage. That
story was untitled for a long time, and sat on my Macbook known just as plain
old “S3E5” (series three episode five) for so long that I thought about
seriously calling it S3E5. At the last minute I went for something more
elegant.
In book four the episode
titles have calmed down a little, although one is a quote from Gordon Brown,
and another is a Kikuyu word.
I love it when a really
striking title presents itself.
I noticed that book
three was slightly more adult in tone with more swearing and violence and even
a mild sex scene. What age range do you see these books aimed at and where to
you see the "line" is in terms of adult content?
Er………. (long, long pause.)
I think I’ve always seen these as
being like the TV show Angel - most adventures are ’15’ but a couple are ’18’.
I doubt I have any readers young enough to be offended by a bit of sex, (and
you should read the bits I cut!) and I thought it would be a cheat not to have
any: the character involved is always flirty, lascivious and has sex on the
brain, so it felt right to let her actually have some at some point or she’d
begin to look mildly insane.
The swearing is also utterly realistic
- certain characters come from that kind of world, and a hardened cyberpunk
killer from 2515 AD is not going to politely exclaim “oh poot!” when a bloody
great monster jumps out at him. I know I wouldn’t. And I’ve hardly ever killed
anyone.
The line for me is one of credibility.
If I can write a convincing scene, great. If I fail then I know not to go there
again. If it feels “real” and honest it’s in. That said, I wouldn’t want to
write eye-watering body horror or particularly grotesque sexual scenes -
because I’m not Shaun Hutson. All my characters are real people, in my head,
which means they all deserve the same freedoms to do what people do as anybody
else. Do I sound nuts? I fear I might. Um.
What can you tell us
about book four of Winterhill? What adventures are in store for our band of
sometimes reluctant heroes?
It’s a time of great
change in Winterhill. There are some changes to the “cast”, as we’ve
lost certain characters but others will be taking their place.
The Twelve Galaxies are
reasonably safe but humanity’s safety is threatened - by political change, by a
hostile alien incursion into human space, and by a dangerous terrorist group.
At the same time, there
is familiar comfort to be had in the return of some old faces - some benign and
welcome, others distinctly less so.
There are funny stories,
there are high-stakes episodes that barely pause for breath.
Obviously there’s
another trip to Minerva in store to catch up with the Taliferos, a talking
orange, and there’s a date with destiny at something called The Infinity
Crucible.
There is also a
significant difference with some of the stories this time isn't there?
No. But there will be in 2016.
Let me explain.
Basically I wanted to get a few guest
writers aboard, as I’ve always thought the series could benefit from a few
extra pairs of hands.
I asked a few people to write episodes
of Winterhill and - as is the way of it - some of these requests were declined,
or didn’t work out, but two brilliant people submitted two brilliant episodes.
Stories so good, and so different, that they’ll be put to special use next year…
Did this present its own
challenges and how did you feel about letting go of your “babies"?
I always thought it would work. Look
at the Doctor Who New Adventures - different writers with different
voices, styles, but overall the characters were consistent and believable. I
was happy to trust Rebecca Winterhill and her friends to the specific writers I
approached, because I knew they’d both get it, and what they produced
far exceeded my hopes.
The hardest part was producing
suitably comprehensive guidelines so the writers can operate within the rules
and the continuity of the Twelve Galaxies without me sending back thousands of
change requests.
Is this a one -off
or do you see this more collaborative "mosaic" approach (a bit like
the George RR Martin edited "Wild Card" novels) being the way
forward?
I’d be thrilled to get other people
involved and see more stories written by other people as this would keep the
series fresh and delay the sad day when I have to write the last adventure.
A writer friend of mine, who is lovely
and has read all of Winterhill to date, pointed out that it was a bit
incongruous to just drop in new writers into book four of an ongoing
series, and perhaps she’s right.
Coincidentally I was already thinking
of doing a different sort of book next year - of other characters
in the Winterhill universe, with more of an anthology approach, and then it was
blindingly obvious that this was where these two new adventures needed to go.
If the reader response is positive I think we can move forward with a mandate
to involve other writers in future Winterhill books.
You have said elsewhere
that each Winterhill book is designed to be like a TV box-set, with separate
episodes and a dramatic story-arc. Does that mean you have a definitive
end game for the series? Six "seasons"? Ten?
I once read an interview with Gillian
Anderson who said, when asked if the X-Files could sustain itself beyond the
then-shooting third season, that she imagined “years six and seven would be
gruelling.” And ultimately she
put in nine years.
While I’m still really
excited to be writing this, I’ll keep writing it. I have detailed plans for
Winterhill book five. After that, I really don’t know. I would be comfortable
guessing that book seven might be the last but I wouldn’t want you to
think I’m just copying J. K. Rowling.
So beyond the end of the
adventures of Rebecca Winterhill (as far away as that may seem), do you see
yourself staying within the same genre for your next project?
I don’t think so (but never say
never). I’d like to tackle a non-genre novel again, I’d also like to create
something a bit Twin Peaksy. At the same time you do get offers of work based
on what you’re known for so if there’s a contract on the table to do more SF, I
wouldn’t say no.
Moving away from your
books, what prompted you to start the "Five Minute Fiction" podcast?
Arrogance. Arrogance and hubris. And I
missed blogging about books, having taken the decision when Winterhill came out
that it would be a bit cheeky as a writer to be critical of other people’s
work, and thus eradicating my Bookface blog from existence. As a huge fan of
podcasting I felt that I wanted to come to the party, albeit rather late, and
clutching only a cheap Frascati.
The podcast has quite a surreal quality at times (Richard Dawkins kept
in a glass terrarium, a huge novel delivered one sentence a week by a washed up
actor). Was it always the plan to include these elements or has it
developed a life of its own as time has gone on?
I wanted the show to have running
jokes to reward such listeners as I might get. I do like to try and be funny.
But these elements have taken over to a degree, and changes are happening to
keep the show fresh and to keep the focus and emphasis on the books. I’ll
always top-and-tail the shows with something, but Mr. Dawkins has
possibly suffered enough, and I’ll fire that drunk old hack D’Abo if it kills
me.
How do you pick the
novels to review? Do you try to avoid any particular authors / genres?
Usually I look for
something thin that I can read quite quickly. One sadist asked me to read a
huge novel by Walter Moers * which will happen one day but on the whole I need to
be reading, reading, reading. Luckily in my job I get sent a lot of free books
each week, and while I have to be careful not to talk too often about books
from the particular publisher I work for, there’s usually something exciting to
pick up.
You have also recently
branched out into appearing on other podcasts (with your segments on "The
Doctor Who Review Show 2015"). What do you enjoy most about podcasts - both as
a participant and as a listener?
Podcasting is the new rock n’ roll. I
am always listening to something, be it Plumbing the Death Star or The Allusionist. I love that sense that you can do stuff in your shed or bedroom
that can become huge all around the world. It’s a very punk sensibility. As a
listener you can curate your own spoken word radio station filled only with the
topics that interest you. And that’s marvellous.
Is it something you
would like to do more of?
Absolutely. But to do it
well you need focus, time and space, and what with my day job, and training for
a half marathon, and writing, and Five Minute Fiction, reading a book per week
and contributing to The Doctor Who Review Show 2015….
Some more light hearted
questions to finish off with. Seeing as you are pretty
good with different voices on "Five Minute Fiction", could you see
yourself doing audio books of Winterhill?
It’s definitely something I’d like to
do but I think I’d need a female performer. I’d also want to add sound effects
and build a properly wanky “sonic terrain”. As soon as I find a channel to sell
self-made audiobooks through, I would certainly explore it.
If you were casting a
movie version, who would you chose for the main roles (any actor or
actress alive or dead)?
NOW YOU’RE TALKING. Most characters
are based on specific people, be it actors, or characters. So a lot of this
work is done already.
Rebecca Winterhill, in my mind, is
played by a mid-30’s Kristin Scott Thomas, but I am flexible on this. In about
ten years, Jenna Coleman would be ideal too.
Maddy’s hair is played by Alex
Kingston’s hair.
There’s a newish character called
Cavill, who would be played by Anthony Stewart Head.
Ms. Gibson is played by Gillian
Anderson. The General is obviously Axl Rose.
The President of the Twelve Galaxies
would need someone with the gravitas of Morgan Freeman.
The villainous character Qalqavekkian
was sort of created in homage to the Anthony Ainley Master, but obviously I
couldn’t cast him so I’d opt for Jonathan Rhys-Meyers.
There’s a good cameo for Ricky Gervais
in the third story of Winterhill: The Wreath of Dreams, The Stone of Tomorrows.
I’m less sure of who to cast as Tareku
(although a younger Paterson Joseph would be oddly perfect, as he can do
wide-eyed innocence and a more edgy, steely side.)
The Minerva characters are tougher to
cast. When I first came up with the character of the Professor (20 years ago)
he was a sort of futuristic Grant Mitchell but now his character is very
different.
But on the subject of EastEnders
alumni, I’d have Leslie Grantham as The Old Man, and a younger Michael French
(David Wicks? Oh YOU KNOW, the guy from Crime Traveller) was the original 1990’s
inspiration for David Baker.
Two new characters in book four are
based on Steve Buscemi and Patricia Arquette. Finally, the shadowy, mysterious
Tick Tock Man would be a great role for Kevin Spacey…
Now let me know who YOU’D have cast?
Finally, it mentions on
your author web page that you are a fan of Guns N Roses and Tori Amos, so I
have to ask -
a) If Guns N Roses were to
do the music for a New Series Doctor Who episode, which tracks would you choose
and why - and which Doctor would it be for?
b) Tori Amos is
replacing a Classic Series soundtrack with her own music - which serial would
fit the best / benefit most?
I think 'Shackler's Revenge' from 'Chinese Democracy' might lend itself to a future Capaldisode.
Guns N Roses would work with Eccleston, Smith or Capaldi. (If I was to chose an existing episode) it would need to be a tough, action-heavy story, possibly with blockbuster elements. I think I'd go for 'The Time of the Doctor'.
Tori Amos? Wafty. Delicate. Elegant. Subtle. Beautiful. Emotionally resonant. Four words for you: The. Curse. Of. Fenric.
Ho ho ho.
Iain Martin, thank you very much !
If you prefer Twitter for your social media interactions, you can tweet him at
The Winterhill books can be bought from Amazon
here for ridiculously low prices.
Last but definitely not least, Iain's lovely podcast, "Five Minute Fiction" is at
www.fiveminutefiction.libsyn.com.
As a special treat, Iain has also allowed me to show the cover of the forthcoming fourth Winterhill book, "Rise of the Fall", which was only revealed last week:
(Intriguing...)
* Honestly it isn't that big a book. It has a large font and drawings and chapters and everything. It does feature a large blue bear though...
